presentation by representative of the beneficiary

[hassan]

dear all,
please help me!
Beneficiary is a german company . in adition what mentioned in Art. 2 and 16 which shows that the docs always may be presented by a party other than benef. and that the bank must correspond with the presenter, as per l/c terms also, presentation of docs. by representative of benef. in my country is allowed. a/m rep. presented the docs and asked our bankto pay its value to its account(rep,s acc.)
1) can we pay docs value to the presenter i.e the rep. or we must pay the docs value to benef itself ?
2) if we must pay the docs value to benef itself , how we can get benefs acc. to credit it ? is the reps statement relyable for this? for some special reasons the advising bank dose not willing to co-operate in this case.

thank you

[iLC]

i require a little detail. was the presentation made through a nominated bank? if yes, then you may inquire with the nominated bank whether they are sure about this presenter and whether they have endorsed the original letter of credit. if the presentation was made directly to your counter, then you may take the help of the advising bank. ofcourse you are right. your suspicion is quire worthy.

[Navi]

Dear Friend,

We often face similar cases and I really dislike...

In fact, to answer your question fully, we need more details about the LC (confirmed or not, with whom the LC available, expiry dates etc.)

You issued LC in favour of beneficiary not the representative. In my opinion, if the docs were presented by representative on behalf of the beneficiary, then after getting confirmation of the advising bank (or confirming bank in case of confirmed by that bank) that they were not presented any docs for the LC and the docs you received were the correct docs, you may pay to beneficiary. I think this is necessary to avoid multiple presentations. In case of payment directly to representative, you again need instructions of beneficiary, and you'll need cooperation of the advising bank.
.
Regards

[hassan]

Thank you ilc and Navi,

more details :
there is not confirming bank.L/C is available with the advising bank in Germany and it is still valid.due to some reasons the benef.didn,t want to present docs to advising bank so it has hand docs over it,s rep in my country and the latter has presented it to my bank and claimd it,s value to it,s own acc.
in fact I doubt to pay to the rep,s acc.because may the benef claim docs value later on. I want to know the proper way according to UCP 600
thank you

[iLC]

i have thought of the issue over these period. if i were you, i would have refuse to pay. i agree with navi that issuing bank undertakes to pay the beneficiary; not its agent. the authority to submit the document is not equivalent to authority to draw. need to rush now. i will try to discuss the issue in more detail as i originally intended for. just adding this line from commentary on UCP 600

The definition of “Presenter” is particularly relevant under article 16 in relation to the sending of notices of refusal.

more comment appreciated meanwhile

[jim]

dear sir,

i have found some cases when the presenting bank appoints a collecting agent and request to pay to that third party. recently i have received a document from thailand which instruct us to pay to a global collection agency in NY.

[MOHAMED.ASHOUR]

Dear sir,
I think , in such case , that it is better to work in both directions
examining and rejection of goods to be directed to the presenter
and in same time ask advising bank to
1-take benef.'s approval to effect payment .
2-confirm collecting their comm. and charges.
provided that reply should be received before period of examination .

[dholat]

i have a question. how can we determine that who is the presenter. if for that document, there is no instruction regarding third party document, then invoice and draft is drawn by the beneficiary. if there is a draft, one must pay the drawee, unless or otherwise endorsed. how can we say then that an agent has made the presentation?

[shahriar]

for a draft, one must pay the drawer, not drawee
determination of presenter is quite simple. presentation is the entity that makes the presentation and as per UCP600 presentation means delivery of documents. that means who ever deliver the documents is the presenter. however i think the courier company becomes a presenter then :lol:

[hassan]

Dear Shahriar,
I know that you are joking about being presenter of courior but just for preventing of misunderstanding of other friends it should be mentioned that presenter is the entity /peson who put a covering letter on docs then send by courior or deliver it directly to the bank . covering letter bear the signature of presenter. the list of docs and it,s claim of docs value etc.

[jabra]

dear sir,

usually a covering letter comes from a bank. should we call this bank a presenting bank? if the document has been negotiated, then i think presentation was made at the nominated bank's counter. who is the presenter here then?

[hassan]

To me covering letter is a letter that an entity (it may be the beneficiary, it,s representative or a nominated bank or any other bans) put on the documents and writes the list of docs, states about claiming value and so on. therefore it is not restricted to negotiating bank .
if it comes from a bank then that bank is a presenting bank. if the covering letter+ documents com from beneficiary (to nominated bank or directly to issuing bank)then beneficiary itself is presenter.