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dear all,

i have a very interesting case in my hand. a bill of lading is signed by the master of m/v xxx. however the BL also shows this

ABC Shipping line ltd, as carrier

whats your opinion? can a "as carrier" Bill of Lading be signed in this manner

regards

mitra

dear mitra,

what so important about as carrier. are you trying to say that "as carrier" is not the actual carrier? that is here ABC shipping line is a NVOCC? if yes, i dont see any problem with the master name and as carrier as far as UCP is concern. it may be the fact that the carrier here is not the owner of the vessel while a master is the representative of the owner of the vessel, it may happen that ABC shipping line is acting as an agent of the actual carrier on a particular port.

regd

shahriar

A copy of document in question is required, otherwise it is pointless to make assumptions.
regards
Cristian

dear cristian,

sorry, but i dont have a copy of the document. i actually heard the case from one of my friend. i just found it interesting. allow me to express my thoughts. generally as carrier means that the carrier is a contracting carrier, not the actual carrier. on the other hand, a master is the representative of the owner or actual carrier. so how can the maser sign a document which has been preparer by such an entity with which he has no direct relation?

regards

mitra

Dear mitra,
The fact that I required a copy of document it reinforce my toughts that we can do nothing but to speculate over this issue.
To reply you at your questions in your last posting:
1. There is no clue from information provided that 'as carrier' is actually the contractual carrier. What I know is that 'contractual carrier- actual carrier' are involved when goods are entrusted to a freight forwarder.
2. The UCP and ISBP make no difference between actual and contractual carrier
3. Article 20 of UCP say just: to indicate the name of carrier and be signed by ... master or a named agent
4. Article 94 of ISBP first paragraph states: ...and indicate the name of the carrier identified 'as the carrier' and point b of same article states : if the master signs.....
3. I had in hand over the last 8 years a lot of B/L carrying breakbulk goods showing XXX 'as carrier' and signed by master identified either 'Master John Doe' or 'John Doe, as master'.
To sum up, based on information provided I consider document conform.
rgds
Cristian

dear cristian,

i agree with you as far as UCP is concern. may be its nt the righly place to discuss since it is related to legal issue. by the way, your point no. 4, i dont think here isbp tries to indicate the case of "as carrier". i think in ISBP as carrier has came just as a syntax. if the intention was to indicate "as carrier" then the appropriate sentence would be

Original bills of lading must be signed in the form described in UCP 600 sub-article 20(a)(i) and indicate the name of the carrier, identified as "as the carrier".

do you agree?

regards

mitra

i dont think as carrier really mean something different from carrier. may be in few cases. cant say for sure. by the way, what would be the case if the credit calls for a freight forwarder bill of lading and the master sighs the BL. will it comply?

regd

shahriar

Dear Shahriar,
according to ISBP paragraph 95:
95. If a credit states "Freight Forwarder's Bill of Lading is acceptable" or uses a similar phrase, then the bill of lading may[emphasis added] be signed by a freight forwarder in the capacity of a freight forwarder, without the need to identify itself as carrier or agent for the named carrier. In this event, it is not necessary to show the name of the carrier.

Here the word MAY BE' is indicative. my understanding is that this document IS ACCEPTABLE EITHER SIGNED BY CARRIER, MASTER,AGENT OF MASTER , AGENT OF CARRIER OR FREIGHT FORWARDER IN THE CAPACITY OF FREIGHT FORWARDER.
REGARDS
NESAR

i think there is not answer to this question unless we have an official opinion. to me it makes no sense that a master will be signing the document prepared by a freight forwarder.

regd

shahriar

I agree with Shahriar.
Freight forwarded mostly operates with consolidated cargoes (e.g. he picks up cargo of different shippers and then arrange by its account shipment. The forwarder functions as an independent distribution or logistical company known as the NVOCC (nonvessel operating common carrier) or NVO (nonvessel owner or nonvessel owning carrier), or commonly referred to as the ocean freight consolidator.
So , it makes no sense in real life to have a NVOCC B/L signed by master.
Regards
Cristian

Dear Shariar & Cristian,
Thanks for your posting, I agree with your statement and have no objection on your premise. But I want to say that when a credit stipulated a condition in a credit that "freight forwarder bill of lading
is acceptable, then
I think this document is still subject to examination under article 20 , as a document examiner,One is obliged to accept a presentation :
EITHER
Carrier type bill of lading which is strictly subject to article 20
OR
Freight forwarder type bill of lading.[where document signed by a freight forwarder in the capacity of freight forwarder]
and
in the latter case, the name of the carrier needs not appear on its face [according to ISBP PARAGRAPH 95].
.
waiting for comments
regards
nesar

humm...i agree with you dear nesar. but if the Bill of lading is a freight forwarder bill of lading and has no indication of carrier, then the master cannot sign the BL, only the freight forwarder can.

regd

shahriar

Dear Shariar,
thanks. regarding your but:
quote:
but if the Bill of lading is a freight forwarder bill of lading and has no indication of carrier, then the master cannot sign the BL, only the freight forwarder can.
Unquote.
MY ANALYSIS:
JUST THINK YOUR CASE FROM OPPOSITE PART OF YOUR COIN:
'WHEN A BILL OF LADING IS SIGNED BY MASTER WHERE NO INDICATION OF CARRIER APPEAR ON ITS FACE, ITS SURLY TREAT AS A DISCREPANCY.
.
P.S. IF YOU CONSIDER FREIGHT FORWARDER BILL OF LADING FROM SHIPPING INDUSTRYT PERSPECTIVE AND SIGNING OF MASTER FROM UCP PERSPECTIVE, DEFINITELY, YOU MAY REACH THIS TYPE OF CONTRADICTION. AM I WRONG... IF YS PLS RACTIFY ME./
REGARDS
NESAR

Dear Nesar,
You have sufficient info not to ask further on something which has no correspondent in reality (i.e you ask how to treat an impossible thing). I think this is a time consuming for all of us.
Your questions are as much as we wonder if an elephant will happen to fly what direction it will take (South, North, etc) .
No offence, the comparation is from my logical perpective.
best regards
Cristian

Dear Cristian,
at the end of the day, i learn a lot from you. So i am really greatful to you.
regards
nesar

Nesar,
You are welcomed any time